Archbishop Tutu
Natsue Sakaguchi
Summer 2003

NS: Growing up, what were your aspirations? You started out as a high school teacher. What drew you to the ministry?
DT: When I was growing up I wanted to be a doctor. I was accepted at the University of the Witwatersrand Medical School but my parents could not afford the fees so I became a teacher. I left teaching when the apartheid government introduced Bantu education, so the ordained ministry was almost a third choice.

NS: In 1978 you became the first black to be appointed as General Secretary of the South African Council of Churches. How did this leadership position change your life?
DT: Being General Secretary of the SACC brought me into a position where I could do a great deal more for our people. A number of overseas agencies and churches valued the SACC as a channel through which aid could reach those who were deprived of education, they helped the families of those in detention, they made money available for legal fees for those on trial for the infringement of the draconian apartheid laws that sought to break the spirit of our people. So it was wonderful to lead an organisation that could help change people's lives.

NS: You received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984. This was most certainly not the end of your quest for non-violence and the elimination of hatred. How did this opportunity open up new doors for you to explore the world of peace making?
DT: I received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984. In my acceptance speech I said that I accepted the prize on behalf of all our people. I was really just a representative of many, many people who were striving for justice, democracy and peace in our land. Receiving the prize gave me a certain immunity, it was now more difficult for the Government to prevent me from traveling for instance - and so I could tell the international community first hand about the situation in South Africa and call for their prayers and for international pressure to be brought to bear on the apartheid regime. I do not believe any country has been as prayed for as South Africa has been prayed for and you can see the results!

NS: You presided as Chairperson of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. How were you able to take in people's stories and experiences without sinking into despair?
DT: It was the people, the victims themselves, who gave one strength. So many were quite incredible in their magnanimity to the perpetrators of the most awful atrocities and the fact that for so many the opportunity to tell their stories restored their dignity. There was a man who had lost his sight through a bullet fired by the security police. After telling his story to the Commission he said, "Thank you, now I can see." The magnanimity and generosity of spirit was humbling.

NS: Since the democratic elections in 1994, how do you think the political, social and economic outlook of South Africa has changed?
DT: Our society has been transformed! There are many times when you want to pinch yourself to be sure you are not dreaming. In 1994 at 61 years of age I voted for the first time in the country of my birth. We became a democracy, it was an incredibly exhilarating experience as well as a deeply spiritual one for most South Africans. We are now free and from being the pariah of the world we became the flavour of the month . Our tourism industry is booming and from a situation of bankruptcy in which the apartheid government left the State our economy is improving and our future is very bright indeed.

NS: What do you see as key to improving the lives of South Africans?
DT: Education. We need a literate, skilled and educated work force in all fields. Health, especially tackling HIV/AIDS appropriately, and housing are important but education is the key to our future.

NS: Besides financial support, what do you think is needed to support poor and disenfranchised people around the world? How do we increase a sense of hope?
DT: Commitment from the First World. At the moment the wealthy nations spend billions on weapons for instance when a fraction of the military budgets of the world would eradicate poverty, provide education, health care, clean water and nutritious food for all people. If the developed nations were really committed to improving the lives of the weaker nations we could eradicate poverty everywhere. Acknowledging the dignity and rights of others would give people hope.

NS: Where does your motivation, courage and passion for tolerance and sympathy for the people originate?
DT: From the scriptures. I believe that all people are created in God's image. To treat any person as being less than a child of God is not just immoral, unChristian and unjust - it is blasphemous. I believe this passionately.

NS: Briefly, how do you describe the work you do?
DT: I am retired! But there are still some people who have been impressed by the South African story - our almost non-violent change from a system of oppression to democracy - and so I am invited to many places to tell our story, to give people hope really. And of course people want to hear about our Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Many see the Commission as a beacon of hope. South Africa had an intractable problem with apartheid but they overcame it peacefully, then perhaps our problem can also be overcome.

If I can bring a little hope, a little joy to the world and perhaps help people to become a little less selfish and willing to care about others and to share with the less fortunate, then perhaps God will not think too harshly of me.

NS: How would you advise children, who hold the future, about how to create a world without hatred, an environment that cherishes the equality and civil rights of all citizens?
DT: I am overwhelmed by the optimism and idealism of young people. So many I have spoken with are really wonderful and they give me great confidence in the future. I pray that they will hold fast to their vision of a better world.

There is a little prayer,

"Lord, help make the people of the world more committed to justice, to tolerance, to caring, to sharing and to love and begin with me. Amen."